In a 3-2 vote tonight, the Lewisville City Council passed an ordinance banning all smoking inside Lewisville bars, restaurants, and bowling alleys (which had been exempt from the previous ordinance), and within 15 feet of any operable door or window. Hotels will be limited to no more than 10% of their room count allowed for smoking, and may not switch designations except to make a smoking room non-smoking.
Originally, the plan for tonight was that the ordinance would ban smoking within 25 feet of the establishment's front door or operable window, and within 5 feet of a patio door or window for patio dining areas. Deputy Mayor Pro Tem Leroy Vaughn supported the ban, but had a problem with the inconsistency of those distances, as he indicated in a video interview with us last week. The plan had also been to leave the exemption in place for bowling alleys, but Councilman John Gorena, who didn't support the ban said that it would be unfair to ban it in bars and restaurants, but not in bowling alleys. Gorena was able to convince Councilmen T.J. Gilmore, Neil Ferguson, and Leroy Vaughn to remove the exemption for bowling alleys.
The proposed ordinance was amended by Councilman Neil Ferguson to reflect these changes before the vote.
Opponents of the ban became agitated and rowdy, heckling a representative of the American Cancer Society, calling her an "outside agitator" and loudly talking over Lewisville Mayor Dean Ueckert, who admonished them and asked for civility.
A few citizens spoke in favor of the ban, and several spoke against. Seven citizens signed up to oppose the ban, and 21 signed up for it.
The vote was Gilmore, Ferguson, Vaughn for, and Mayor Pro Tem Rudy Durham and Councilman Gorena against.
The ordinance did not receive a 4/5ths vote of the council, so under the charter, will require two more readings at subsequent council meetings.
Once the ordinance is read 3 times, and legally publicized, it will go into effect on October 1st of this year.
Here's a summary of the changes to the city's smoking ordinance that were passed tonight:
- Smoking is banned inside restaurants and bars.
- Smoking is banned inside bowling alleys
- Smoking is banned within 15* feet of any door, operable window, or vent to a place where smoking is prohibited.
- Smoking is banned in an outdoor seating area adjacent to a playground or play area for children, or otherwise posted non-smoking.
- Bars clarified as establishments earning 50% or more of annual gross sales from alcohol.
- Owners of establishments where smoking is prohibited must post a sign saying "No smoking. Violators fined up to $500" with the universal no-smoking symbol. This is changed from the old $200. They must advise violators that smoking is not allowed, and must ask a violator who refuses to stop smoking to leave the establishment.
- Exemptions for small restaurants based on seats or square footage have been removed.
- Not more than 10% of hotel rooms may be designated as smoking rooms. All rooms on the same floor must be contiguous, and smoke may not infiltrate into other areas where smoking is prohibited. The status cannot change except to add more non-smoking rooms.
* 15 feet rather than 25 or 5 that was in the backup material. This was amended on the dais.
The comments are owned by the poster. We aren't responsible for their content.
Poster
Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 2012/7/2 23:47 Updated: 2012/7/3 0:43
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
Whew! Now that you got rid of the smokers, can you get rid of the drunks??? I realize that not all people that smoke are bad and all people that drink aren't drunks but let's face it, since Lewisville went wet, crime has gone up, arrests for DWIs have gone up and I don't like being around people drinking when I go to a resturant.
So, when will the City Council reverse the decision to sell alcohol? They didn't have to put the smoking ban to a vote so they should be able to go back to being dry without putting out to the public for a vote too, right?
There is one small problem with this smoking ban. It is an ORDINANCE. This means it is one more ordinance that the city has to enforce. They haven't mastered enforcing all the other ordinances, yet. Even TJ's ordinance about parking your car the right way on the street. This one still cracks me up because that is actually a state law but this city council passed an ordinance for it. LOL!
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
I'm not so sure that our crime rates have had much of a change. I had some reports around here, but having a hard time putting my finger on them.
I take it that you're being facetious, but the Council cannot reverse the decision of the voters to allow alcohol sales.
No idea what you're talking about with a parking ordinance. They've been enforcing that long before TJ came on Council. What ordinance are you referring to? Guaranteed that as with any law, there will be challenges in enforcement of this ban..
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
I'm not saying this is necessarily the case - because I don't know, and haven't talked to the experts, but...
The thing about DWI stats is that you're getting numbers of cases/arrests, and not necessarily the number of crimes committed. How many people get away with DWI numerous times before they get called in or spotted by one of LPD's finest? As I understand it, we sometimes get grants to increase enforcement efforts. LPD has also utilized a new paperwork reduction system (LEADRS) that allows the arresting officer to get back out on the beat quicker. So these things could increase the number of arrests/cases even if the actual unknown number of crimes went down or stayed the same.
I guess my question is whether we outlaw anything that can possibly lead to a crime? The majority of people enjoy their alcohol responsibly and do not drive while intoxicated. Do we punish everyone because of that, or do we just punish the bad guys?
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
Regarding the DWI's - just because arrests are up does not mean that the arrestees are coming from Lewisville bars. I have noticed an increase presence with LPD and the DPS on I-35. It could be that our finest are just out in force, which is a great thing!!!
ID Theft - this is everywhere and is increasing nationwide. While some of these crimes may come from bars, (when people lose their credit cards, etc) I feel certain that Internet hackers, etc are responsible for this increase in ID Theft.
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
Keep reading: Quote:
"Patrols are out there looking specifically for that offense. When you have focused patrol officers, who are constantly aware of that, you're going to have more offenses," Powell said. "We don't think there's necessarily more offenses of DWI, people are just being caught more."
I'm not getting your point, I suppose. Are you legitimately trying to make the case that we should go back to being a "dry" city, or are you making a slippery slope argument against the smoking ordinance?
If it's the former, your argument doesn't hold water. Multiplestudieshavebeenconducted that all reject the claims that wet laws lead to more DUI/DWIs. It's possible you could make the case that selling "hard" alcohol leads to more problems, but we don't have that.
If it's the latter, it's not even remotely close to a fair comparison. In the first place, there is already a law for driving while intoxicated. There is no law, however, for hurting someone through secondhand smoke, primarily because it wouldn't be pragmatic to create one. A waiter's liver will not fail because he/she served alcohol. -BC
P.S. I'm also wondering what increased ID theft has to do with alcohol laws. Are drunk people going out and stealing Social Security numbers?
Poster
Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 2012/7/3 9:54 Updated: 2012/7/3 9:57
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
The analogy might be more appropriate if the drunks were pouring their alcohol into my kids' mouths when we're sitting in the non-drinking section of a restaurant. Then I'd be more worried.
Poster
Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 2012/7/3 10:00 Updated: 2012/7/3 11:46
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
What a crock of %$#@ should leave it upto the business owners. That way we have a choice.
Poster
Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 2012/7/3 17:11 Updated: 2012/7/3 18:21
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
Hitler would be proud of you. Your grandparents who fought against dictatorships will be turning in there graves. What ever happened to being free to make your own choice. There are plenty of smoke fee places to eat. So now where do the adults go that no longer have children around them for a nice drink and a smoke. Time to move city's, this one is too corrupt.
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
Godwin's Law said it would come to this, didn't it?
You are a petulant idiot.
My grandfathers and those before them fought for basic human rights, and freedom from REAL tyranny that rounded up people, oppressed, enslaved, and killed them. My great uncle liberated a concentration camp. You dishonor them by petty comparisons with your so-called "right" to smoke wherever you damned well please.
Good luck finding a new city where you can thoughtlessly pollute everyone's air to feed your own nasty addiction.
Poster
Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 2012/7/3 19:59 Updated: 2012/7/3 20:44
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
You sir, are making the same comments that you so quickly remove, because you said that we can argue/debate here, but name calling is not acceptable behavior. So it's okay for you do it? I wouldn't say Lewisville is Hitlerish- yet.... but we'll see. With some of these guys in this club, it doesn't look good for our once great city. As for the alcohol-- It has been a great thing to keep that money here-- at least for the while it lasted. I spent many hours getting those signatures. We will lose a lot now to neighboring cities who have councilmen that actually have a clue about what they are doing.
Poster
Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 2012/7/4 9:15 Updated: 2012/7/4 11:33
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
He, sir, is the editor and owner of this website and he can do whatever he damn well pleases! If you don't like what he does, I suggest that you don't come back to HIS website. He has a line of what he will tolerate from posters and I personally think he is very generous about what he allows to be posted. You stepped over the line with your comments and I think it was about time that he stood up to you. I am grateful to the city council for their vote. It will make dining out and getting a drink more enjoyable for the majority...you know, those of us that don't smoke and don't want to smell it.
Poster
Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 2012/7/4 19:09 Updated: 2012/7/4 23:42
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
As you stated - "He, sir, is the editor and owner of this website and he can do whatever he damn well pleases! If you don't like what he does, I suggest that you don't come back to HIS website."
So, Steve owns a business and can do whatever he likes (I agree), and if you don't like it, don't come back to his business ( I agree).
How is that any different from anyone owning a small bar or other establishment. If you don't like what he does, his prices, his food, the clientel, or the smoke, please don't go back.
Poster
Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 2012/7/5 9:09 Updated: 2012/7/5 9:44
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
This website isn't a business for one so he governs what is done here. He also doesn't dump smelly smoke in your nose and lungs when you come here so there's that. And, by using your analogy, don't go to restaurants that don't allow you to smoke if that is important to you. No one has a right to smoke and no one has a right to impinge on my desires for clean air during a meal. The council did the right thing in banning smoking. I applaud them and hope that you and all of the other smokers that have posted here can either come to peace with the decision or find someplace that you like that will allow you to smoke. And hey, if you find some good places to eat, drink and smoke, post back on here so other smokers will know about them and people that don't desire the smoke can stay away.
Poster
Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 2012/7/6 1:50 Updated: 2012/7/6 8:16
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
As you stated,"And hey, if you find some good places to eat, drink and smoke, post back on here so other smokers will know about them and people that don't desire the smoke can stay away".
I'm happy to see that you finally agree with me. Private owners should decide how they want to run their business and the public will decide where they want to spend their money. Unfortunatey, the overall ban has now stopped people, who want to, from enjoying a drink and a smoke because after all you might decide to show up.
As you said earlier "people that don't desire the smoke can stay away".
Oh and by the way, this site is shown to be a business unit of Sagepost Inc. and the ads do generate revenue. Sounds like a business to me.
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
I don't want to get off-topic here, but the easiest thing to say about LTJ is that it is what it is. It's under a corporate umbrella for tax and liability reasons. Profit may be an eventual motive, but for now all revenues are re-invested (and then some...) Thankfully, I don't have to pay myself for my hours (or our other volunteers), because even at minimum wage, this thing would have been bankrupted long ago.
Although we're not as highly regulated as restaurants, which need much more regulation because of their nature, we do have to deal with issues of law and ethics.
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
-BC
Poster
Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 2012/7/4 13:35 Updated: 2012/7/4 16:18
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
I think we can be freedom lovers and STILL understand why this ordinance is a terrific idea. Freedom is great -- many brave people have fought for it, and it is the foundation of our government -- but we should never use our freedom in a way that harms others. If smokers had been considerate enough to avoid lighting up in a room full of non-smokers, there would have been no need for an ordinance. That has not been the case, so regulation is required for the safety of non-smokers. Great job, city council!
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
One other point, if you ate at a restaurant and it made you sick, who you going to call? I would call the manager first, and the city inspector second. Places that serve food occupy different regulatory environment. They are heavily regulated, regularly inspected and must be open for inspection at any time. They can have significant health impacts on a community. If a restaurant made people sick on a regular basis, they would be closed down. That is just part of the cost and risk of doing business. We can argue that we do not have enough inspectors, but most people on this blog are real happy with the low level of city oversight.
So, to me, the smoking ban is just one more effort to make food establishments safer for the community.
Poster
Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 2012/7/4 16:42 Updated: 2012/7/4 23:42
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
Dear Anonymous (Jerk), Hitler has no place in reference to anyone doing what is lawful and only a jerk who does not understand what Hitler actually did would apply it to a law abiding citizen. I bet you were born after Hitler died. Study history before you sling it around and aledge things.
Now to your comment, you are ignoring the Responsibility part of freedom just like all spoiled children do in their "Me First" world!!!"
You are totally ignoring what Freedom is supposed to be about! If you have a freedom there is responsibility that comes with it as a Citizen. Yes you do have a right to smoke, but you have an obligation to do it responsibly. You do not have the right to harm others. Just as you have the right to run around willie-nillie or even exercise how you see fit; you do not have the right to intentionally collide with other people. That is irresponsible.
As to the restaurant owner's rights, he abdicates his personal right to allow smoking in his private business when it damages the lives of the public, his customers. We already know you could actually care less for the local business owner because you are not espousing anything about shopping locally.
I find it difficult that you never heard about responsibilty for a freedom. I suspect you are one of those spoiled "Me First" individuals who just wants to smoke whenever and wherever he wants and the hell with everyone else.
Jack Ablon
Poster
Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 2012/7/5 14:04 Updated: 2012/7/5 14:52
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
This is in response to the Hitler comment.......
Sir, While I'm sitting behind you in a restaurant, do I have the right to pass gas? The answer is yes, I do have the freedom to make this choice. However, out of respect to you, I don't because I know you don't want to smell me. Likewise, I (along with over 90 percent of the population) don't want to smell your nasty smoke as well. However, due to the lack of respect you show towards others, the city must now require you to show respect.
Poster
Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 2012/7/5 11:14 Updated: 2012/7/5 12:07
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
Every time there's a council meetings I weep for our City. On the first and third Monday of every month we can be sure that more of our money will be wasted, and more of our liberties will be trampled.
It's a matter of private-property rights. If I own a business, and I'm forced not to smoke, or to allow guests to smoke, then why can't they force me not to smoke in my home?
The public-health argument is ridiculous. If you don't like smoking, then don't go on someone's property who smokes. I don't presume to tell you to allow me to smoke in your business or in your home. I'd appreciate the same courtesy.
I live in the Vista Ridge area, and I run, and walk a bit. I can go to the movie theater, or cotton patch, or TGI's on foot in a short amount of time. However, the council should know that many times, there are cars polluting the air all around me, only a few feet away from where I'm walking. Did you know smoking is only a small fraction of a percent of what cars pollute, so with the public health in mind, shouldn't they keep sidewalks 15 ft. away from the roads? (Sarcasm intended)
The bans are affecting private-property, not public-property. It's worrisome that our City Council doesn't seem to know the difference.
Poster
Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 2012/7/5 13:09 Updated: 2012/7/5 14:51
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
Are you a Lewisville business owner that cares or are you a disgruntled smoker? And, by the way, your logic that other things are bad for you as well so why do away with smoking just doesn't wash. We can do away with what we can do away with and kudos to the city council for stepping up to make this one small change. If you don't like the Council as it stands then I challenge you to run for Council during the next election instead of posting your disdain for them here. Maybe you can team up with Gorena and Durham to get a majority and run the city the Tea Party, ultraconservative way you would like it run.
Poster
Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 2012/7/5 17:01 Updated: 2012/7/5 17:32
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
Please let me know the next time your are at TGI Fridays so I can sit behind you and pass gas. I'm sure you won't mind smelling me.
What you do in your home is your business. If you invite someone to your home and smoke, you have the right to do so. If someone does not like it, they can leave. Nobody is forcing you not to smoke in the privacy of your home.
You also have the right to smoke outside your home. The problem is....90% of us don't want to smell you. Out of respect to others, when your are inside a public place surrounded by people, please go outside and smoke because we don't want to smell you.
Poster
Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 2012/7/6 1:13 Updated: 2012/7/6 8:16
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
Can't we all just get along?
My wife has severe asthma. I think we should band together and show concern for the asthmatics among us - and those with COPD. We can't go into bars or restaurants because of the perfumes and colognes that are enthusiastically applied by so many - who do have a right to wear them, but do not have a right to creating breathing problems for some of us. Have you ever put down money for a show, or play, or ordered dinner when you realize you have to quickly exit - or face the prospects of an Emergency Room visit?
We should petition tne council to ban all perfumes and colognes. After all, like you all, we feel we have a right to go into any privately owned establishment and enjoy a meal also.
What say you? We already have a good start with the tobacco ban.
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
I sympathize with you on the asthma thing. Both of my sons have asthma, though thankfully are seeming to grow out of it a bit as they get older. Those emergency room visits are not fun. I wish people would use more common sense and consideration when applying perfume, because even though I'm not asthmatic, they do give me headaches.
The problem with banning something like perfume is the enforcement. It's very easy to determine whether someone is smoking or not smoking. But how would you define "too much" perfume, and determine with certainty who is wearing it? There's also the issue of knowledge: smokers know with certainty that they are lighting up and causing the air to be polluted. Many perfume wearers seem unaware that they have over-doused themselves - perhaps because their sense of smell is deadened to it. I don't see any sensible way for government or business-owners to deal with over-dousing of perfume, aside from maybe appealing to a younger audience, since the older folks seem to be the ones most susceptible to over-dousing.
Poster
Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 2012/7/6 8:49 Updated: 2012/7/6 10:24
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
I have a hearing impairment, I cannot be around loud noises and often I go in somewhere and leave with a severe migraine because of sound, we should ban talking louder than a whisper too. To many people talk like everyone needs to here it.
Poster
Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 2012/7/6 8:44 Updated: 2012/7/6 10:23
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
I live in lewisville, our council is full of idiots. These are the same people who for my whole life have tried to makeover old town to be something special and failed year after year. This wont accomplish anything except lowering business revenues. Personally I never go to a restuarant or bar where these policies are enforced. A business should be able to offer an environment suitable to its patrons. smoking non smoking, drinking non drinking, 18+ and over 21+ etc. I dont think my wife and I will be visiting any bars or restuarants in town again, we can easily drive to the colony, denton etc. Wow, they got bowling alleys too, good bye AMF bowl, your done son. You got to love on the Mayors corner "Overall, of the more than 600,000 room-nights that were booked in Lewisville hotels during 2009, about 50,000 were related to youth and recreational sports. We expect that total to grow by at least 15 percent this year because of sporting events coming to Railroad Park". But then this is passed, Rudy Durham, Dean Ueckert, you guys are idiots.
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
I want to express my gratitude and relief to you for your decision to not patronize bars and restaurants in Lewisville. I would hate to think I could expose my wife to such boorish behavior. Disagreeing is fine, name calling is immature.
You also are very short on accuracy, Mr. Durham was one of the two votes against the ban. I don't agree with him, but I respect his right to vote his principles.
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
Quote:
These are the same people who for my whole life have tried to makeover old town to be something special and failed year after year.
Turnarounds of 100 year old + areas don't happen overnight, but they've made significant progress, turning $400,000 investment into $193 million in improvements. But that's off-topic. If you have a beef with Old Town investments, please state your case on one of our open threads.
Quote:
This wont accomplish anything except lowering business revenues.
It's always possible, but the data don't seem to support this assumption. While some specific businesses may see revenue fluctuate, and may even go out of business if they can't attract customers on something other than smoking, evidence suggests that overall sales increase.
Quote:
Personally I never go to a restuarant or bar where these policies are enforced. ... I dont think my wife and I will be visiting any bars or restuarants in town again, we can easily drive to the colony, denton etc.
So pick up your toys and go play somewhere else. Even more, you seem to want to undermine local businesses who follow the law. This kind of "me first" and "I'll show them" behavior is what is wrong with Washington and Austin right now. You don't get your way, so you want to do your best to undermine it for everyone else. You're not concerned for local businesses; you're only thinking of yourself and your childish desire to "punish".
Quote:
But then this is passed, Rudy Durham, Dean Ueckert, you guys are idiots.
By the way, Rudy Durham voted against this ban. But unlike some people, Durham has some loyalty to this town. Instead of throwing a childish fit because he lost, he expressed his desire that Lewisville businesses benefit from the decision. I have no doubts that he'd continue to be an advocate for local business. Dean Ueckert supported the ban, but as Mayor, does not vote, except in the case of a tie.
Poster
Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 2012/7/6 16:26 Updated: 2012/7/6 17:03
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
Hopefully the quality of the bowling will continue to sell people on the facility. If the facility fails, then the answer would be that they were selling bowling-while-smoking, and were not able to get the quality of their product up to the standards of the general (non-smoking) public.
Poster
Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 2012/7/6 18:30 Updated: 2012/7/6 19:48
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
* AMC sells non-smoking movie tickets. Still in business...
Poster
Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 2012/7/7 16:28 Updated: 2012/7/7 22:20
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
I took my son to AMF Lanes a couple of years ago. It smelled like stale smoke so badly that we haven't been back, even though it is close to our house and my son wants to go bowling again. Once the ban goes into effect, we will definitely make a return visit there.
Poster
Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 2012/7/7 17:55 Updated: 2012/7/7 22:20
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
AMF sells non-smoking bowling [as of Oct. 1] Will still be in business too
Poster
Thread
Anonymous
Posted: 2012/7/10 12:07 Updated: 2012/7/10 13:00
Re: Lewisville Council Passes Smoking Ban; Restaurants, H...
There are three groups that oppose smoking bans in the workplace:
1. Bar owners who claim they will be hurt financially. This is a fallacy and has been repeatedly proven false.
2. Smokerswho somehow claim that somewhere in the Constitution their right to blow carcinogens on the folks around them is protected.
3. Tea party "conservatives"whose role for government intervention becoomes smaller and smaller every day. The contention here is that this should be a business owner decision. They also cling to the reason about the Constitution that does not exist.
To these groups, I will say that certainly government regulation of personal behavior can be a slippery slope. See Soda ban in NYC. That being said, there is no scientific controversy about the harmful effects of cigarette smoke. This not only affects the workers in these establishments. The cost in health care dollars of heart disease, stroke, cancer, and emphysema is astronomical! The taxpayer-YOU foot the bill for much of these bills. So take away people with emotional and political arguments, or perceived financial stake and there is just no good reason to continue to allow this pollution in our workplace.