To: Dianne Edmondson, Chairwoman, Denton County GOP
From: James Collier; Lewisville, TX 75067
Subject: Poor Behavior by GOP Officials
Ms. Edmondson,
My association with the Republican Party began with Barry Goldwater’s bid for the Presidency, and continued throughout the Nixon, Ford, Dole, Reagan, H.W. Bush, G.W. Bush, and the McCain candidacies. I have always considered myself a moderate conservative, pro-business, pro law and order, and limited government involvement in the personal lives of citizens. I registered as an Independent some years past due to the hijacking of the GOP by the social conservatives and the neocons. I have still voted for republican candidates but I no longer wished to be associated with these “anything but true conservatives”.
I attended a Lewisville City Council meeting July 2, 2012, when a vote was scheduled on a very controversial restaurant and bar smoking ban. Numerous citizens signed up to voice their opinions prior to the formal Council vote. The Mayor announced everyone would receive their five minutes, and requested all speakers be courteous and respectful of both sides.
A representative of the American Cancer Society spoke and listed the dangers of secondary smoke exposure and pled for the Council to pass the ban. Approximately 2 speakers later a Tom MacKinnon was given the podium. MacKinnon launched a tirade against the ACS representative and stated she had no right to speak since she was not a resident of Lewisville and he informed the Council, in a very loud voice (The sound system is very adequate in the Chamber.), they were wrong to allow her to speak.
At that time a small group, about six males, started a commotion by hissing and booing the ACS representative. I was two rows above this group and sitting on the opposite side of the horseshoe shaped seating area, so this group was clearly visible to me. The Mayor called for quiet, trying to restore order. The Mayor then repeated the necessity for respect and courtesy for all speakers, and said hissing and booing were not acceptable by anyone. The Mayor added that applause were acceptable at the end of each segment.
The Mayor then told MacKinnon his reprimand was not directed at him, but at the unruly listeners. MacKinnon disrespectfully told the Mayor he objected to that, too, then finished his speech.
Incidentally, I was seated in the midst of several citizens opposing the ban, their behavior was exemplary.
Ms. Edmondson, the apparent ringleader of the group making the commotion was Steve Hill, one of your Precinct Chairs. Hill lives in my neighborhood and is well known due to his previous failed candidacies for Council positions. His smirks, jeers, and sneers in response to the Mayor’s pleas for decorum reflect the actions of an overgrown juvenile delinquent. This behavior continued until the vote was taken and Council adjourned. Following adjournment I was behind Hill’s group going to the parking lot. The group stopped in the middle of the driving lane, and seemed to dare anyone to make them move. This thuggish behavior has no place in our community, and least of all in a nonpartisan municipal government venue.
You can imagine my dismay when I learned MacKinnon is also a GOP Precinct Chair. Have I missed something? Is there some new standard for GOP officials to display offensive behavior?
I have some neighbors, one former school teacher and one still teaching. Both were staunch GOP supporters. Both made the same statement, “We haven’t left the Party, the Party has left us.”
Please raise your standards, enable us to be proud of the GOP again.
Sincerely,
James Collier
Jim Collier is a retired telecommunications engineer from Lewisville. He can be reached by email at jim_cut1@verizon.net.
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Anonymous
Posted: 2012/7/9 13:14 Updated: 2012/7/9 14:26
Re: Open Letter to GOP Chair: Republican No More
Well, your statement of what happened wasn't exactly accurate. I to was there, and was sitting next to Steve Hill. There was no booing, or heckling, we did speak amongst ourselves, but that was it.
When the anti-smoking lobbyist was speaking, there was no booing. When Mr. Mackinnon spoke, he directly called her out as an outside agitator. People cheered for Mackinnon's statement. Nobody booed. I was there, and I watched the video to double check. I remember the Mayor stating that people were, but can't hear any booing throughout the meeting. Steve nor did any of us sneer at the mayor when he asked everyone to be respectful. We just weren't sure about the booing that he was talking about, and he was looking directly at us. There was no booing that I heard, nor that I could hear on the recording.
And as far as us hanging out in the parking lot like "thugs". We do that every meeting. Some of us know each other, and we talk out in the parking lot. If anybodies walking or trying to back out, we obviously move without any bad looks or anything of that nature. Have you seen most of us? There's nothing thuggish about us.
I have no reason why you posted this on here, or why you actually e-mailed the County Chairman.
Firstly, cardioid microphones aren't meant to pick up extraneous noise, so that's why background noise typically isn't heard in videos like this (internal mics on camcorders are pretty much useless and any videographer worth his or her salt will turn them off). Since it's just he said/she said on the boos and jeering and I wasn't able to attend, I won't bother with that aspect of the debate.
But even if there wasn't booing, would it be that hard for you to simply admit that your group was incredibly rude? Why can't you or Mr. Hill or Mr. MacKinnon simply admit that you were out of line? I mean, watch the video:
I would say you look like a bunch of teenage boys, but that would be an insult to the attention span of teenage boys. Everyone whispers something now and then to their neighbor, but are you seriously not aware that having a conversation while someone is presenting (especially a guest) is not appropriate? Even when Mayor Ueckert was speaking to you, you're still having a conversation.
In other words, you can argue whether or not you were booing or sneering, or maybe next time you can just shut up and listen like you're supposed to and that way people can't possibly misinterpret your actions. -BC
Shenanigans can be seen at about 26:30, when the Cancer Society representative begins speaking, and Hill's row begins laughing and chatting, like a bunch of kids. Although I don't recall specifically hearing the "boo" sound, they were about as disrespectful. Like Brandon said, the microphone was not going to pick them up, but you can see their mouths moving.
30:30 begins MacKinnon's tyrade, shouting at the Council.
The whole lot of them - Hill, Daniels, Basta, and MacKinnon owe the Council, and the speaker an apology.
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Anonymous
Posted: 2012/7/9 20:48 Updated: 2012/7/9 21:51
Re: Open Letter to GOP Chair: Republican No More
I was also at the counsel meeting on July 2nd. I was sitting on the opposite side of the meeting room when the commotion went on. I can tell you this Steve Hill was not booing or out of order during this meeting. I was also in the parking lot after the meeting. As this was my first counsel meeting I wanted to meet Steve Hill and some of the others that were at the meeting. There was no one impeding traffic nor being disrespectful to anyone leaving the lot.
I am new to Lewisville and this was my first Counsel meeting. After reading this letter it is obvious that Mr. Collier has a grudge towards Mr. Hill. It does not seem this should be the forum to air out any discontent towards another citizen to this town or county.
After meeting Mr. Hill for the first time on Monday July 2, I found him a very conservative and of outstanding character. I am offended in this article that Mr. Collier wrote.
I suggest that Mr. Collier needs to refrain from this type of attack on other citizens of Lewisville. If Mr. Collier claims that he is a Republican or past Republican these allegations should be brought up to a forum of Republicans of Denton County than to air out his laundry in this public forum. If Mr. Collier is a true Republican as he says he is he would stop bashing those of the same party openly in public. I question that fact the Mr. Collier is a Republican or Conservative.
You are obviously new to Lewisville, and also obviously drinking the tea party Kool Aid. Science is not equivocal on the dangers of cigarette smoke. The same arguments were made by the tobacco industry fifty years ago to try and say smoking was perfectly healthy. The attacks on the ACS representative were out of line. Second hand smoke is a workplace safety issue the same as asbestos or lead paint. This is just more scare tactics by Mr. Gorena and his band of merry men!
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Anonymous
Posted: 2012/7/10 20:51 Updated: 2012/7/10 21:24
Re: Open Letter to GOP Chair: Republican No More
My friend obviously you have missed the boat. This is not about smoking it is about a Private Business Owners Right to make decisions on his business. Please spare me your lecture on the dangers of smoking. I do not smoke and I do not go into restaurants that permit smoking. Who are you to tell a private business owner how to run his business. If you do not like do not have to spend your money at that location.
Would you go to a restraint if you did not like the food? Or would you go to the City Council and demand that the restraint owner do a better job cooking food.
While the Democrat stands more for community, community responsibility and social justice, the Republic is for individual responsibility, individual rights and individual justice.
Democrats who do not like guns want to ban guns to all citizens - Republicans who do not like guns do not buy them
Democrat who does not like smoking wants to ban smoking everywhere Republican who does not smoke does not go into establishments that permit smoking.
Basically my friend I am not drinking the cool aid you are a Liberal Democrat that cannot stand anyone who does not aspire to your perfect world that you think everyone should live by. Well your world is not perfect my friend it is flawed.
Brent, you have a really inaccurate view of what Democrats want. If you want to know what Democrats ACTUALLY think, you should ask one, or read our platform instead of making shit up, or regurgitating whatever you heard some pundit say. Not every issue can be bifurcated into liberal-vs-conservative, but that doesn't stop these fear-mongers from trying, since it lines their pockets.
This particular issue crosses partisan boundaries and has support from a majority of citizens on both sides, and in-between. It is not a case of right versus wrong; it's a case of competing interests, each of whom has rights and freedoms. Couple years ago, I was on your side in this. I just think the balance has tipped.
Once again, you are talking about things that do not exist and will not exist - like banning guns, and banning smoking everywhere.
As for making restaurants "do a better job cooking food", we do that already. You can't serve customers food that could make them sick. We don't regulate taste or mandate menu items, nor will we ever, but we do mandate safety, and that is what this current debate is about.
As for your assertion that Republicans are about individual rights, and don't try to ban things they don't like, I think you need to take a good hard look at your party and realize that this is exactly what Republicans like to do, and unlike proposals from the left of center, Republicans don't stop at your bedroom door. They want to regulate personal behavior and choices based on their own bigoted ideas of what is right, even when it doesn't concern them.
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Anonymous
Posted: 2012/7/12 23:09 Updated: 2012/7/12 23:34
Re: Open Letter to GOP Chair: Republican No More
My friend please do not underestimate what I know or what I do not know about Democrats. I come from a State where the Liberal Democrats have bankrupt the economy sleeps with the United Autoworkers and claims Detroit as their Key city for how Socialism can put 50% of the people not working. So please before you tell me I do not understand Democrats you are wrong. I lived in that environment for over 26 years and have seen the fall of what Liberal Democrat Socialism can do. It does not work and those who say it does are FOOLs. Read the book of Proverbs if you do not know what a fool is.
The bottom line is we stripped the rights of private business owners the right to make decisions on their own business. Shame on you and those who supported this issue. Again, I am not a smoker.... this issue was not about smoking. I do not east at restaurants that allow smoking… That is my right to go where I want. It is the business owners right to allow or not allow smoking.
I am not here to try and change a FOOLS mind. So keep thinking the way you do.
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Anonymous
Posted: 2012/7/13 4:04 Updated: 2012/7/13 8:35
Re: Open Letter to GOP Chair: Republican No More
The virtually unreadable ramblings directly above, which are devoid of rational sentence structure, anything resembling grammar, and utterly lacking in logical construct, appears to be saying something negative about Democrats and fools. Otherwise, the nonsensical diatribe is quite inscrutable.
The good news is it would appear the Republicans have secured the illiterate and gullible vote, for what that is worth. But then that really comes as no news.
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Anonymous
Posted: 2012/7/13 9:28 Updated: 2012/7/13 12:14
Re: Open Letter to GOP Chair: Republican No More
My friend, if you read your Bible and practiced what is in it perhaps you wouldn't be as angry and full of condemnation as you are.
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Anonymous
Posted: 2012/7/13 10:08 Updated: 2012/7/13 12:14
Re: Open Letter to GOP Chair: Republican No More
"Fools have no interest in understanding, they only want to air their own opinions."
Proverbs 18:2
This certainly sounds like someone in this argument. Check your definition of fool.
And "Who is more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?"-Ben Kenobi
This is not about smoking it is about a Private Business Owners Right to make decisions on his business.
The random capitalization makes your turgid talking points so much more exciting. The lack of an apostrophe is the icing on the cake.
Private business owners do not have the right to do whatever they want. I'm not sure where you read that in the Constitution, but it's not there. Private business owners do not have the right to dictate to their employees what kind of air they can breathe. No matter how many times you or anyone else tries to bring up the same talking points, they don't apply. Had you actually made any sort of effort to understand how a city operates, you would understand that we (reasonably) tell businesses how they can operate all the time. We have health codes, zoning laws, ordinances, etc. Why is this any different? Because you've decided to make it into a (rather lame) issue. Once again you've lost, and you're angry because your wafer-thin talking points have been perforated again and again.
I may be a liberal, or I might be a moderate pragmatist, or compared to other societies, I might be a right-winger. At the very least, though, I'm not a hack, something neither you nor any of your buddies could ever claim, and that's enough for my own conscience. -BC
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Anonymous
Posted: 2012/7/10 22:13 Updated: 2012/7/10 22:29
Re: Open Letter to GOP Chair: Republican No More
First off I'm not your friend and second Kool Aid is spelled with a K.
I am truly amazed at the myopic outlook expressed by Mr. Murray. Mr. Murray, how can you possibly state there was no rude behavior demonstrated by Mr. Hill during the Council meeting? Where do you buy your audio-visual aids, Diagon Alley?
We received an email from Steve Hill disputing Collier's account of the incident. Hill has been invited to respond here if he would like, since this is an open forum. He has instead chosen to send emails to me.
Here's what Hill had to say: Quote:
I am an ELECTED official of the Republican party. Sorry to inform you that Ms. Edmondson will not be able to kick/keep me out of the party.
I did not boo or his. You are a liar! (I attend nearly every city council meeting and have often seen people from other towns speak, and have never complained or done anything to stop them nor her.)
I was not a group ring leader. You are a liar! (People have their own minds, and can act without my prompting. My proximity had no effect on them.)
You did not register an independent. You are a liar! (You don't register as anything in Texas, your party is determined by your vote in the primary.) I was not blocking traffic or acting "thuggish". You are a liar! (I may have "seemed" to do anything in your deluded mind.)
If you have something to say about me, please say it to my face (or at the very least copy me on the email).
You may address your apology to: Steve Hill 964 Camden drive Lewisville, TX 75067
Southwell: Once/If this liar issues his retraction, please remove the lies from your site.
I did speak to Mr. Collier, who stands behind his words. I did not specifically hear a "boo" or a "hiss", but I did hear a general commotion and jeering indicating disapproval of the speaker from ACS. Conversely, there was a commotion of approval during MacKinnon's speech. I cannot prove one way or the other who said what, or whether a boo was said that I couldn't hear or do not recall. So here, you have Collier's words, and you have Hill's words, (and a couple other witnesses) and our readers can watch the tape and decide for themselves what was going on and to what extent Hill participated, encouraged, or tolerated the behavior. In my view, Hill should have asked them to be quiet, or should have gotten up and moved. Instead, it appears he participated and encouraged it. For that reason, I am not removing the post now, but it is subject to our deletion policy.
Couple of other points: - Collier says he was from Florida where you register by party. - Contrary to Hill's assertion, Collier did not ask Edmondson to remove him.
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Anonymous
Posted: 2012/7/10 11:23 Updated: 2012/7/10 11:30
Re: Hill Disputes
Someone needs to edit these diatribes for him. The grammar police would have a field day with this one. My ten year old kid could do better with the English language than this.
Apparently some guy was offended by booing and hissing that he heard at the city council meeting. Somehow, this person decided that I was involved. (I was not) Then decided I was the "ring leader" (I was not). He only knew my name from the fact I had run for council in the past. Then, rather than speak to me, he decided it would be a good idea to try and have me kicked out of the Republican party. Since I am elected by the good Republicans of my precinct, he can't do that. If I were a liberal, I could throw paint on people who wear fur and be celebrated. ( I wont get into other tactics of celebrated liberals) But, I am a conservative. I don't throw paint. I peaceably assemble to redress my government and for that I am a villain.
So the moral of this story is... uh... don't wear fur. -BC
I don't know when heckling speakers at council meetings has been considered peaceably assembling. Granted I was not at the meeting, but the tape certainly seems to show disrespectful behavior directed at a rep from the AMERICAN CANCER SOCIETY. In the name of all that is holy, can we all please show some respect. If any individual disagrees with the ACS rep or Mr Hill or anyone else, then let them step forward and be heard. Don't sit in the audience and heckle like a bunch of teenagers.
I can't agree with you more eagleeye, though I know quite a few teenagers who would never display the kind of immaturity demonstrated at the Council meeting.
If anyone is interested, I have informed Mr. Hill any discussion regarding my letter to the Denton County GOP Chair will be in this venue. The contemptible behavior was in a PUBLIC forum, my letter to the Chair was published in a PUBLIC forum, and I will engage only in a PUBLIC discussion.
Mr. Hill says he refuses to participate in this venue, and I should be a "man" and face him. I don't believe a man engages in playground behavior, particularly name calling. It's been well over fifty years since I was a participant in playground activities, so one can hope Mr. Hill grows out of it.
If anyone has contact with Mr. Hill, please forward this, and inform him I have marked his email as spam, so it will not be delivered.
James Collier
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Anonymous
Posted: 2012/7/11 17:45 Updated: 2012/7/11 18:04
Re: Hill Disputes
What is with the fur reference? That is just bizarre. Does Steve Hill think that is what liberals do? Is the point to say that some people do bad things that are worse than what I did, therefore what I did is okay?
"Some people shoot other people and commit other acts of terrorism to get their way. I just show up and talk loudly and raise cane while others have the floor." Yeah, I guess there's nothing wrong with that when you compare it with terrorism.
This guy thought he was smart enough to be on City Council?
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Hill Disputes